From what I've read, the logic behind the FAA limiting a Sport Pilot to one passenger in a C172 is training difference between PPL and Sport Pilot. If that is correct, then why shouldn't a PPL transitioning to Sport Pilot be allowed to carry three passengers, assuming the plane qualifies as LSA (or whatever the new name will be)? After all, transitioning to Sport Pilot doesn't cause a private pilot to forget that additional training. Not looking to debate, just questioning the logic of this aspect of the rule.
MOSAIC - limit to one passenger in a 4 seater
- Thread starter bill1962
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BrianS
Private Pilot
If you have a PPL then why would you transition to a sport pilot license?
Palmpilot
Superior Pilot
There are certain medical conditions that would required you to get an SI, even for BasicMed, and that could take the better part of a year to get, even if you qualify for it medically.
BrianS
Private Pilot
I can see that. That's got to be a narrow subset of cases, right? From that perspective, I'd guess the answer to the original question is that the additional regulatory complexity (even if minor) isn't worth it for such small numbers.
Of course, the entire recreational license exists - and that's small numbers as well, I think.
Of course, the entire recreational license exists - and that's small numbers as well, I think.
Palmpilot
Superior Pilot
I think the chances of needing an SI increase with age.
I believe the recreational pilot certificate is much more restrictive than sport pilot in some ways. I've never spoken to or heard from anyone who had one that I know of.
I believe the recreational pilot certificate is much more restrictive than sport pilot in some ways. I've never spoken to or heard from anyone who had one that I know of.
Katzenjammer
Soloed!!
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Does someone have the figures? My guess is there are relatively few pilots with a Sport Pilot Certificate. I'm betting that most pilots are exercising Sport Pilot privileges but carry a (what some would call higher) certificate, such as private, commercial or even ATP.
I think those who were certificated as and still hold the certificate of a high rating (if I can use that term) should be able to , for example, have four people in a four place airplane.
I think those who were certificated as and still hold the certificate of a high rating (if I can use that term) should be able to , for example, have four people in a four place airplane.
Cap'n Ron
In the Clouds
About 300 RP's out of 600,000 pilots. The FAA hopes they'll all either upgrade or pass on so they can pull the plug on it.
As for PP's flying with three people without Basic Med or a regular medical, one of the considerations for SP's flying on a DL only was limiting the risk by limiting the number of passengers.
As for PP's flying with three people without Basic Med or a regular medical, one of the considerations for SP's flying on a DL only was limiting the risk by limiting the number of passengers.
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Katzenjammer
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I take your point on risk and the medical. I hope we don't see FAA or others making and argument that a pilot exercising Sport Pilot privileges (not the Sport Pilot certificate) is not adequately trained.
midlifeflyer
Long-Distance Cross Country
i suspect it's simply a matter of making sport privileges and limitations uniform between those who became sport pilots from the beginning and those who voluntarily choose to limit themselves by foregoing any level of medical third party review.
Just like a 20-year commercial pilot can't exercise commercials privileges if they voluntarily choose to drop to a third class medical or BasicMed.
Just like a 20-year commercial pilot can't exercise commercials privileges if they voluntarily choose to drop to a third class medical or BasicMed.
Katzenjammer
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I don't see your point. Not exercising commercia privileges does not talk to the training and capability, which I thought was the question at hand. The 20 year old commercial pilot can still carry 6 people in his T210, he just can't charge for it. His competency is not questioned.
What's the likelihood of changing the Reg? I don't know, probably very slim. However, seems that a few people agree that a PP who decides to fly as SP should be able to carry 3 passengers in a C172. We don't lose our skill set when using a DL instead of Basic Med. If you agree, take the few minutes to provide a comment to the FAA during the open comment period. Failure to comment ensures no change will occur. https://www.regulations.gov/commenton/FAA-2023-1377-0001
midlifeflyer
Long-Distance Cross Country
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about whether commercial pilots are held to a higher standard of training and capability than a private pilot. And don't discount the capability of sport pilots. Currently they learn in aircraft which, as a group, take more skill to land than larger singles.
Untimely, while it may happen, I don't see the FAA making those kinds of distinction among people who choose to exercise sport privileges.
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Cap'n Ron
In the Clouds
Somewhere between slim and none...
...and Slim left town on the noon train.
A few? I have no doubt. But those people are ignoring the basics of the FAA's concept of risk management regarding lives at stake with pilots who aren't being checked and passed for flight by a licensed physician. The FAA is willing to risk one passenger like that, but not more. Not saying I agree with their position, just explaining how the FAA feels on this issue.
It's your health, not your skill set, about which they are concerned. And the fact that they keep finding all sorts of debilitating meds in dead pilots isn't helping advance the argument that we can be trusted to do accurate "IMSAFE" self-assessments without occasional professional medical oversight.
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Gooneybird
Private Pilot
While I like the idea of the C172 being used by a Sport Pilot, I have no problem with being limited to one passenger if I choose to fly under those rules. If my drivers license is my medical certificate there may be a good reason for that limitation.
I disagree that it's about "health" the FAA in the release of MOSAIC makes it clear it's about risk appropriate for Sport Pilot training. From MOSAIC, "Per the safety continuum concept, increasing the number of persons aboard should require an increased rigor of certification including a higher grade of pilot certificate."
Gooneybird
Private Pilot
The higher grade of pilot certificate includes the medical certification. You cannot fly as a higher grade of pilot certification without the accompanying medical certificate. I cannot fly as an ATP or as a Commercial Pilot since I use Basic Med. I can fly as a CFI using Basic Med. I think the FAA looks at the overall picture.
Ernie
Long-Distance Cross Country
Insurance hasn't been included in the discussion yet. Wonder what the effect of no medical will be. $. but how many?
Cap'n Ron
In the Clouds
You should go back 20 years to the original discussions and NPRM for Sport Pilot for the FAA thinking on the issue.
midlifeflyer
Long-Distance Cross Country
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest."
Reading through the comments, this is obviously an important agenda item. That's not a bad thing but it generally requires some disregard of anyhting that is contrary.
But it doesn't really matter. I agree with you that expanding sport privileges to include being able to fly with more than one passenger with zero required medical clearance other than "I've decided I'm ok" is unlikely, whatever the level of certificate held.
Ernie
Long-Distance Cross Country
Since I turned 80. I have to have a BasicMed exam annually to insure my two seat Citabria. I can imagine what they would respond to, "Oh, I'm flying Sport Pilot I don't need a medical."